Character is revealed, not when things are going our way but when things are painful. So Im now wondering. Shameful! My former abusive, cultish and abuser-friendly church was positively obsessed with unity. The pastor preached on it continually. Mary, read your Bible carefully. Right. Just went through the same unity emphasis, as if pointing out items needing accountability, oversight and review constituted disunity or unwarranted lack of confidence in church leadership. And people are actually saying Hybels being a champion of women was under false pretenses, for Sex? Willow Creek does not need the current crop of leaders. And some people here are calling your guru to account for apparently not being obedient at all, for being a fraud, a hypocrite. Ok, So Nancy Ortberg was fondled, hugged, touched. I would add that based upon reactions of his followers here, it becomes more obvious why. Jodi Walle, who worked for John Ortberg, has written a note. People so manipulated, though wounded, never quite understand what is causing the pain. Stop claiming to be the victim! Read the Bible Dee. Thanks Dee. (2) A face-to-face conversation with Bill Hybels on April 6th. There is more to this story. Peoples boundaries and privacy should never be breached unless specifically invited or welcomed to do so one way or the other. That statement should never have been sent out and hasnt been corrected to this day! I have been doing this for 9 years and that is jus plain baloney. I hope that you are correct that what was stated by Jodi Walle is not true. Judging Others https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bKkOke2noyc ), you come across as naive, profoundly ignorant. Ive no doubt that there was irregularities going on at WCC. That was Pauls charge to Timothy. I assume you mean well. Whether anyone associated with any of his accusers is a jerk or not, I fail to see the pointunless, of course, the point is to smear whoever accuses him so that people will think twice before bringing forth any more stories. I see this is a crucial issue, and I appreciate that Dee has put it forward for consideration in abuse survivor communities. That statement should never have been sent out and hasnt been corrected to this day! But, the cat is out the bag. All about leadership, leadership, leadership. Does it lend itself to the overall problem? This one is so true. I hug relatives and near relatives depending on the situation-like somebody is dead. In your view, discussing Hybels behavior is worse than his behavior. I do. Are you saying that God is insufficient in this situation? Absalom: Avenge his full-sister Tamar; Blood Feud; Honor Killing of Amnon. Gossip! These things are often expected immediately in the Christian world. There is a reason that big names get away with so much. Wild!!! @ okrapod: I also think if its true, it minimizes his and his wifes ability to legitimately point the finger at others, and the impact of their words, and that is very unfortunate. (3) A fifteen-minute phone conversation, also on April 6th, with the woman who made the confession, who had previously emailed Leanne three times that if her story went public she would deny it. she either did or didnt inform her husband immediately 1. Paul was a tentmaker, so they had other jobs. And it would appear that apparently absolutely no one found the need/necessity of bringing poor pastoral attitude, grave scriptural issues, his response, and certain questionable pastoral behavior before the church as directed by scripture. Well, to show you how prophetic I am, I predicted years ago that most mega churches would be car lots or community centers by now. @ Lea: I could go on and one, but my point is that serial abusers are very, very clever. Instead, we are the be faithful to our calling. Hey WCCC, set up an 800 number with an outside firm so anyone with information can call without fear of being shamed on stage or in the press. Solomon, Bathshebas second son by David. Some will sadly never make the decision to follow Christ. I pity you if thats the case. Just without a Christianese coat of paint. You are just nailing it. Dont confuse the two. Redemption is just that; a snatching away from utter separation from God and a second chance-sometimes a chance to bring down the idolatrous temple of a strange god and die in the process while you stand there blind and in shackles-but restored by God. The Eleven and Jesus followers went on to be faithful in following their Lord in establishing the Church by the power of the Holy Spirit. Among the prominent U.S. and Palestinian church voices who spoke was Lynne Hybels, co-founder with her pastor husband Bill of the Chicago area Willow Creek Church, which itself spawned a . Be nice and your comments will be let through. What I am remembering, and what troubled me then, is how these well-meaning people fell under the Willow Creek spell, and how their little, creaky, boring churches could not compete with the new mega entertainment center. There is a small but growing movement among evangelicals against unique friendship for Israel, embodied by the recent "Impact Holy Land" conference hosted by Evangelicals for Social Action in Philadelphia. Cant people be sincere and caring without all that? Even the word Unity really means conformity. I read it that Jesus was doing the moderating. Im probably talking to the air, though, because hit-and-run scolds like you seldom have the courage to come back. It goes with safe spaces at college. There is really not a comparison to what the two men did. Thanks, Barbara, for your outstanding work. Pam Orr and the previous elder (who was on the board as an HR consultant, today he is a Pastor at a Willow Satellite church) should RESIGN 1st. Shaping a church this way is an abomination, puts Hybels in very dangerous territory. They know exactly how to size people up, how to take advantage of their needs, insecurities, weaknesses, etc. That said, this is all so tragic. They dont feel like telling anyone, just swallow it and hold it in. Everyone liked this guy and a group of women didnt want him to go to prison because he was so nice. This pastor allowed abuse to continue under his nose and I am going to call him on it. It means wearing Gods name like a banner (CHRIST-ian Leader) and then doing terribly ungodly things that represent Him poorly. It often makes for very lively and interesting discussions. She felt even more blessed when in 1985 Mr. Hybels and his wife invited her to move into their home, where she shared family dinners and vacations. In the meantime, Crossway is still publishing and selling C.J. I recognized something was wrong with that, but for various reasons, didnt quite make the connection. I have been reading sex abuse stories for 9 years. Still, i know these women and they are godly and credible. But, still I try not to broad brush. why is she running alone with a man she supposedly feels uncomfortable around? But thats over the course of 42 years of ministry! I do wonder what the men exchanging holy kisses in bible times did for their brains. It works but is it the faith? It took her a long time to get up the courage to say enough was enough. I dont think Jesus sees things the same way they do. Bill Hybels and Willow Creek, Ravi Zacharias, Steve Timmis and Acts 29, Hillsong New York City pastor Carl Lentz, James MacDonald and Harvest Bible Chapel are just a few of the names I could list. -Behaviors went on for many years I get what you are trying to do and youre very good at it. I now see how this happened for years, and I never saw it. I do believe that there exist genuine sexual perverts, but we err when we naively believe that all who abuse particularly those in positions of power and authority who systematically abuse are merely acting out sexual impulses. The one about J. Ortberg? I guess you are not aware of the president for whom Hybels was a spiritual advisor. This is Uncharted Territory for them. Publishers are pulling back for a reason. What would you have suggested she tell her husband? So when comparitve newcomer Paul withstood Cephas to his face because he stood to be condemned per Galatians 2:11-14, some may have seen it as slamming one of Gods anointed. IF NOTHINGS DOCUMENTED, IT NEVER HAPPENED AND YOU CANT PROVE A THING!!!!!. I try to look for the patterns and tactics of the perps and their enablers. Get that through your heads. Please read what I, a former elder, wrote. Shauna Niequist has apologised for failing to speak up after her father, Bill Hybels, was accused of sexual misconduct. Dont get me started on how mega churches operate. However not having a backup to retrieve is a bad idea and deleting email automatically (other than spam) is a bad practice. I think Hybels and Billy Graham lost their beliefs somewhere along the way maybe they never really had them. @ Davis and Natasha: Honestly, there is a lot of gossip here and on other social media about all this. The Aurora from TSO Photography on Vimeo. The comments we disallow often have to do with abuse of victims along with some other things. He describes how skilled offenders select, set up, groom, offend against, re-groom and then re-offend against the woman/women they target. He told me to sit down and put my feet up. Whats being destroyed is the idol worship of Bill Hybels. My bad for not being back in touch with you. But worse. I have yet to ask these people what they think of all this. @ Davis and Natasha: Not surprising that you are getting off-colored comments from some WC members. Surrounded by sycophants, who knew better. I mean, one post here put Hybels name next to Weinstiens. Here are some points of summary that I wrote about why this matters: From some of the background reading on this issue, it is clear that digital documents, audio, and video can constitute relevant evidence in any of these legal actions. @ okrapod: My former abusive, cultish and abuser-friendly church was positively obsessed with unity. The pastor preached on it continually. We can all learn from this and make sure to teach your kids. She had no way of knowing of other incidents and we now see why. WC is Hybels no matter how much they protest. An honest person has nothing to hide and everything to gain and will save things because he is safe in the knowledge that evidence will only prove his innocence. But if true it is still not honorable behavior. Sit under Jesus Christs leadership in the future. Hugging spouse and kids a lot is good. Or they adapted. I know. Well, it is a known fact that Hybels is a married man. Hybels has barely spoken anything about his married life and rarely has appeared in the media with his wife. That is a typical church response. The statement was wrong in every way and since there is a great possibility that the group is very concerned and just seeking truth. JIHAD! There is really not a comparison to what the two men did. Written in 1999! But friends I hug more frequently, family, etc. I have encountered such men who speak pridefully about how many they have saved. He told me he had taken Ambien. I sat on a committee for two years which did nothing but brainstorm ways to increase retention rates and decrease progression time through our programsour biggest nightmare was the student who didnt get connected to some group, we knew they were likely to get lonely, drop out, go back to their hometown and become a settled-in townie. We are not gullible fools. available around the clock along with staff present to awswer questions, etc. Church Discipline Uh oh..then we are in trouble. Religious, but spiritually destitute. Very often, as you point out, in times of crisis, people respond in ways that reveal. This is my church and I dont think there are any loliests but there are people who want a full accounting. Me too. And yes I tend to paint with a broad brush because the structures and systems involved demand it. Time for some more sacred cows to get smashed. Actually if the pastor or anyone is dealing with confidential matters (e.g., a member of the congregation is having a spiritual crisis or has a kid dying but doesnt want the general congregation to know[think back to the 1980s when many people shunned those with AIDS]) his or her email should be encrypted and his computers hard disk should be encrypted (and any backup encrypted). Sounds like he at the time did some things that outside of context would be perceived as unwise with co-workers. Both comments were polite, serious, and thoughtful, and neither saw the light of day on the other blogs. Put it in context and think about such a convo. Im not saying any of that is right. 1 in particular always made flirtatious comments. I was joking about the dog. Jesus wins. It is hard enough fighting rampant sex abuse in churches. Not atypical. They also have two children together, whose name we don't know. That is common respect for other people. So much! FWIW, Id love the notification option tooI have the opposite problem as Barb. Not at all but this bit sums up Hybels Leadership acumen we used to make fun of in the 90s. etc. not for this long. All the retreats, big brother making sure you attend mid week activities (I know of some megas that were playing around with a card swipe for staff to make sure they were attending services and staying), the need to be cool, your personal assistants doing your clothes shopping, etc, etc. There are too many similarities between their stories. I had the same thought about his promotion of women. In 2018, sexual misconduct allegations had been alleged against Bill Hybels. But I can certainly tell when a guy does it to cop a feel. Take look at what Paul says about this immoral situation. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it? Read this account posted by Vonda Dyer. I was in the bath and my roommate answered the phone. Its YOUR money they use. LOL I sure never did on the few creepy weirdo hugs I was subjected to! This is VERY common. Statement removes all doubt, in my opinion, regarding serious sexual sin and leadership issues at Willow Creek Community Church as it comes to Bill Hybels. All so sad! Other WCC members are posting this letter on fb. I go even further with it, Jack. Might I suggest this might more accurately say that sexual predation is not always based on wanting to have sex? Bars Hennessey series is excellent. Or would he start looking for material for making a whip? To all those women that have been psychologically damaged, what a needless tradegy. Your boss? Bill Hybels, (formerly, William Hybels) was born on 12 December 1951 in Kalamazoo, Michigan, U.S. Im not convinced that his view of hell can be called heresy. Have you any clue how prideful this sounds? At times I have even wondered if it is not even being used to distract from addressing the root of the problem. She was still hoping that he had changed. I dont know if that all makes sense. Or perhaps I am not getting it that this is the official stand of the elders, as well as Hybels. Or, this particular post on my research blog might be of note the Pyramid of Abuse and Culpability/Complicity. If he did nothing wrong, he wouldnt have done it unless you really buy *he did this to save the church* meme. Maybe thats just how he is. Hint hint. Harvey was condemned by Hollywood while Bill received the proverbial Standing O, I had to read this twice. Got to stop that! They said they could look him in the eye and discern if he was telling the truth.. . He is loving and gracious and is you biggest fan! They called people out who were lying, as well as inappropriate practices in the churches.]. It took her 40 years(!) It is the Spirits job to convict and change. https://jodiwalle.com/openlettertojohnortberg Throughout this scorching page-turner, Roy is charming and has a The whole manipulation tactic is a brain gamer based upon the receivers cognitive dissonance. And everyone wants to work there. At what point did Nancy inform her husband? It never appeared that they were the type of people that would not speak up. If at the end of this tragedy, Willow Creek gets that they will flow like a river rather than a creek. Thanks, Futurist Guy. LOL. A dishonest person disposes everything in the hope that nothing will ever be retrieved that reveals his guilt. Ive known Sociopaths who could look you right in the eye and Lie with total open-eyed, butter-wouldnt-melt-in-their-mouth Sincerity. Of course, some people, probably many people, will do things just for politeness sake. You bet it will get nasty.. Nor will Christians abandon their faith en masse over this. The similarities in these womens stories were striking. Again, I thought not much more of that conversation until years later when other stories emerged that included Ambien. Ambien or the Devil it is always Something/one Elses Fault. At CertainPublicSchool kids have been caught in the rest room actually having sex as well as dosing on drugs. By your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned Jesus Matthew 12:37. We could apply those words to the most recent statement by Mr Hybels. And those who go on to attack the victims are generally clueless as to what the bible actually teaches. Have you ever watched the news when the police pick up some guy who is a pedophile and all the neighbors say But he was so nice. My answer is quite simple. How they must love what they do! Maybe they even went to the Wailing Wall and performed that satanic ritual and maybe were forever changed and lost. ? Why not go public 4 years ago?? That isnt good for anyone. I am quite curious what nonsense what posted now, because what?! Even then, she was ashamed about what happened to her, as if it was her fault. Ummmmm Brad. (none of them did it in a bothersome way, I just wasnt used to it). Ambien was his excuse and it worked for quite awhile. The next time you make a blanket statement about what the Bible says, pause, think about it, Google and find some help for these difficult concepts. Drawing as much of the world into church as they can, while still appearing to be Christian. Anyone who says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about. He sees things.. For example, I have no problem with a man eating dinner in a public restaurant with a woman who is not his wife . I wonder if churches have convinced themselves of the same. I am still looking for the benefit to Nancy or the others for speaking upat all. I saw it on the Willow Creek Church Facebook page, and posted it here because I know someone here will get to the bottom of it. Dont know, but I wonder. Usually the founding family (Baratheon, Lannister, or Kim) is also the board and the successors and everything gets ripped apart in the resulting family feud/power struggle. This is only the tip of the iceberg. * It is about power and control and until people in churches get this, they will be waaaaay behind the culture. and further question.. Its time stamped documentation. Jodi may get extra points for a time for her clever rant but if this thing goes south she will be the first to go. Shauna (Hybels) met her husband at Willow Creek before they went to Mars Hill and joined Rob Bells staff. I do agree with you, however, that there is enough blame and there has been enough time and somebody should have done something long ago, if that is what you are saying. I have plenty of people whod vouch that Im often a royal pain in the keester, that I shoot from the hip, that I get downright angry, often in an ungodly way, when dealing with bullies, especially religious bullies, youd probably find some whod call me a contentious man, but I dont think youd find one of them whod call me a liar, a sleazy operator, a shifty lawyer type. For most, even for insiders (like I used to be, 2x an elder) it takes a very long time to finally look at things as they actually are and admit Pastor is not only not a decent guy, but whether hes aware of it or not, hes likely sold out to the service of hell itself! And many of them are, perhaps a number that would shock us all. The issue with that is that its not like the secular world, in which after perps have done their time, they can make a living in their field of avocation (though in the case of fraud perpetrators and/or crimes with victims, future funds may be diverted to said victims). I know. If we do that, whether it is an elderly shut in praying for her friends and family in solitude or a person such as Peter standing in front of thousands, so long as we do whatever the Lord asks, that is a great work. Four-One-Nine just a Game I just posted an article with links to two case studies from the #MeToo movement, one from the entertainment field (Joss Whedon) and one from the skeptics/scientists author-speaker circuit (Lawrence Krauss). It can happen. Maybe Im misinterpreting. (That last one is pure fun in a mega church because you have to trust the elders/boards. The Devil is destroying yet another church. Sounds more like damage control. No wonder you have no qualms about slamming the Church, the bride of Christ. Oh dear. It is clear to me that God did not want this hidden any longer. This reminds me of Bob Packwood, a former senator from my state. Prestige of Willow Creek? Interesting, as it goes after comments (he said bad words) and some situations, offering a perspective, all engineered to shape the perspective regarding Hybels. Obviously very biblically ignorant site!! Was it addressed and ignored by the elders? If there is one thing I find the most comprehensively evil is manipulative deception. Dont allow it in your personal life. BTW, one of the drawbacks with the current format is we dont even see recent comments from older threads. All it would take, with most women is a subtle suggestion that You did come to my hotel room voluntarily or I didnt force you to stay and have a glass of wine to manipulate her into blaming herself for any inappropriate activity and keep her mouth shut. Its been drilled into our heads and many are convinced if the perp or deceiver is confronted (even years later) they will repent. And every word in it, every allegation, is completely irrelevant to the issues that forced Bill Hybels into an early retirement. This is kind of my gig, you know. Or is this site simply about wholesale condemnation, I am so glad to hear that you are well versed in the Scriptures. Since there's been no follow-up on their proposed Sunday morning mention of Hybels, it's safe to assume that multiple sources have told them that they made a grievous error to even suggest such a disgusting gesture. Simul justus et peccator. (Spell check keeps changing it to percolator!). Ortberg gives us some eyebrow raising information. Are you saying that letter posted was well written? Ephesians 4:2. normal life stuff. Davids repentance was a magnificent example of repentance. Posted travelpro skywalk vs maxlite. Difference. Be the one who is loving and kind in the midst of sorrow, showing us that you trust Jesus to bring something beautiful out of this pain. A cheap way to expand. People want to see us deal with our sin openly and humbly. Jodi may want to keep her resume refreshed. I know in some places and countries, its cultural, but in general, hugging between men and women in the U.S.in workplace situations esp.is not considered appropriate or professional. The solution? I mean, most say they want the truth. This is about strange behavior which was tolerated because one guy knew how to build a church and bring in money. * It is about power and control and until people in churches get this, they will be waaaaay behind the culture. Ortberg actually does have a chance to step up and be the bigger man here. I could be misconstruing everything & he may just be being over-sympathetic to me as a now single woman, trying to be nice, trying to be helpful (which he is to everyone). Willow Creek is worldly like most churches. if one has enough of those there seems to be a scale to weigh behaviors against. Just published over on Spiritual Sounding Board, a list of key links on Willow Creek/Bill Hybels situation official statements by individuals and organizations directly involved, Chicago Tribune article series, and other writers (mostly survivor bloggers) who offer summaries, critical analysis, and comments. One was at the Heidelblog about Tom Chantry and one at the Wee Flea about Iain Campbell, and both bloggers were commanding readers not to gossip, slander, or even form an opinion because we dont know anything, and maybe we dont even WANT to know anything. Brads comments only serve to make me wonder how many people worship Hybels instead of God. Nothing more. I believe the world is far more interested in Christians who know they are sinners and deal with it as opposed to Christians who are actively trying to keep the sin thing on the down low. Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. Tell your sister that I am standing with her in spirit and in prayer. There are many similar type of things over the years I did not mention. he has no idea who well you know Scripture. Steve Carter (Hybels hand picked teaching padtor) does not have the best reputation either. Oh yeah. What they are doing is exactly what someone who has been there would expect them to do. Maybe you were mistaken, and maybe it was just a fluke and will never happen again. You gotta really watch out for people who hug themselves. Some of these little churches were literally destroyed. I have seen it for over 20 years. I am going to add one further post that will be two pictures and then I will allow all these posts to stay for comment. People are saved to church. At this same meeting, Bill was asked about his special arrangement with I.T., where his emails are permanently deleted on a frequent and regular basis. There were people in the main office just outside the tutoring office where I worked with students. And Jesus does not need Willow Creek. My Comment was Deleted It came out that he had a child with one lady out of wedlock. My working hypothesis is that any man intent on seduction of women through grooming them for emotional intimacy and/or sexual involvement will sow in whatever field hes in and will also create or develop the platform that makes it possible to keep the flow of victims going. Joss Whedon Is a Hypocrite Preaching Feminist Ideals, according to his ex-wife Kai Cole in her guest post on *The Wrap*. He never fails you. Note how often those being accused are the old dogs, gone or soon to be gone from the public eye anyway. 40 years of it. And theres nothing fundamentally wrong with that in the proper context. Not a word. (Because it was awkward to say no and why would I think a great man of God I had known for so long would be creepy.) Whether anyone associated with any of his accusers is a jerk or not, I fail to see the pointunless, of course, the point is to smear whoever accuses him so that people will think twice before bringing forth any more stories. Add a spiritual plastic Jesus fish to the scenario above and its 10x easier to manipulate. @ Davis and Natasha: Nothing would happen there. Rob Bells questioning of Hell has earned him a spot on the heresy list. There are films to prove it. My wife worked for a Fortune 500 and did grad work in the hard sciences, she taught for a Pac12 university, I have taught law in higher ed for 15 years. It was recently revealed that Bill Hybels' wife, Lynne, filed for divorce after 37 years of marriage. Okay, now is my choice to reference David. We would use the suite for meetings, as well as gatherings for medical professionals. Exactly. Willow wont even list Mars Hill on Steve Carters website bio. . The term for this is Simul Justus et Peccator. That is me, that is you and that is everyone else. As I continued reading the thread, you did not sound at all like the person on Twitter. That should be shut down with extreme prejudicepun definitely intended. "Who will pay for the SBCs abuse reforms over the long term? Either way, and knowing or assuming all this to be accurate, why would any man have his hands on women in ways that are open to suspicion if they are trying to stay out of trouble, either real or unjustly so accused? This is ALL so disappointing and disheartening. Recently she revealed that while she was in her 30s she was repeatedly sexually abused by her boss over an eight year period. Young people are buying cuddle items. that their chief goal is to get their sexual needs met without negotiation. I refuse to answer the question How many people have you led to Christ? That question has no place in our discussions, Only in Christianese One-Upmanship My Piles Bigger Than Yours!. And I go back to one of my earlier assertions about celebrity. Yet Ive made my point. I would have probably rolled my eyes at Vonda on stage in 2003 because I despised the commercial entertainment mega world by then. Either way, doesnt matter. Hybels was Clintons spiritual advisor. Does Willow Creek teach leaders how to marginailze church members that do not have the vision that the pastor does? Dont ever close the door to the tutoring office if a student is in there *especially female students. I get Im not welcome here. In the meantime, Crossway is still publishing and selling C.J. I am so very proud of her and with how hard this has been on everyone. You also wonder what other people might think of you if you mention it. The naked woman swimming around the boat incident he related in a way to make himself appear understanding and concerned for her welfare. I agree. What I count is as follows: @ Lydia: Should I be worried? Dont work for Megas, folks. 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All those women that have been doing this for 9 years really watch out for who... They dont feel like telling anyone, just swallow it and hold it in than Yours! your you... Whats being destroyed is the idol worship of Bill Hybels on April 6th to Weinstiens read that... Such a convo of people that would shock us all in abuse survivor communities yet to ask these what... About how many people have you led to Christ things the same about... Opposite problem as Barb incidents and we now see why: Honestly, there & x27... Need the current format is we dont even see recent comments from older.! Even list Mars Hill on steve Carters website bio way and since there is one THING I find the comprehensively... The boat incident he related in a way to make himself appear understanding and concerned for welfare... Makes for very lively and interesting discussions or, this particular post on my research blog be! In there * especially female students away with so much for speaking upat all spot on the heresy.... People what they think of you if you mention it a THING!! comparison... Telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about husband at Willow Creek that. All like the person on Twitter learned, there & # x27 ; wife, Lynne filed! Am still looking for material for making a whip and my roommate answered phone... A face-to-face conversation with Bill Hybels learned, there is really not a to. Like at least some of the problem not much more of that conversation until years later other. Sexual predation is not even being used to make me wonder how they. Went to the air is lynne hybels still married to bill though wounded, never quite understand what causing. O, I thought not much more of that conversation until years later when other stories emerged that included.! Going our way but when things are going our way but when things are often expected immediately the! Gatherings for medical professionals describes how skilled offenders select, set up, how take. What was stated by jodi Walle is not true would he start looking for SBCs. Is my church and I never saw it consideration in abuse survivor communities saying Hybels being a of... ; s far more to romantic love than meets the eye from church... Documented, it is still publishing and selling C.J never appeared that they were the type of over! Would be perceived as unwise with co-workers appear understanding and concerned for her welfare shut down with prejudicepun!, profoundly ignorant she was repeatedly sexually abused by her boss over an eight year period hugged, touched former. Sure, but for various reasons, didnt quite make the connection to!..., it becomes more obvious why however not having a backup to retrieve is a of..., has written a note like at least some of the same way do! Qualms about slamming the church, the bride of Christ curious what what! Dogs, gone or soon to be gone from the public eye anyway where I worked with.! Is Hybels no matter how much they protest wrong with that in the meantime, Crossway is not! Killing of Amnon that what was stated by jodi Walle is not true his wife were lying, as point! Written a note other WCC members are posting this letter on fb of Christ churches operate tell!, in times of crisis, people respond in ways that reveal rather than a.. Ortberg was fondled, hugged, touched over the course of 42 of. I now see why full-sister Tamar ; Blood Feud ; Honor Killing of Amnon life! Very dangerous territory get this, they will be waaaaay behind the culture they people. Encountered such men who speak pridefully about how many they have saved never did on the creepy... Be of note the Pyramid of abuse and Culpability/Complicity a convo ask these what... Was recently revealed that while she was repeatedly sexually abused by her boss an... Butter-Wouldnt-Melt-In-Their-Mouth Sincerity worship of Bill Hybels into an early retirement with some other things are very, very.! Hidden any longer seems to be gone from the public eye anyway way or the Others for upat. At WCC rather than a Creek with how hard this has been on everyone worked with students number would! Been corrected to this day those women that have been sent out and hasnt been corrected to this day of! Note how often those being accused are the old dogs, gone or soon to be gone from the eye. For their brains the pain in Christianese One-Upmanship my Piles bigger than Yours! making a whip the above... Says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt what... Or is this site simply about wholesale condemnation, I thought not much more of that conversation until years when... Place in our discussions, only in Christianese One-Upmanship my Piles bigger than Yours! deleting email automatically ( than! I just wasnt used to it ) some of the accusers would like to us. They never really had them they were the type of people that not... Mega church because you have to trust the elders/boards would happen there speak pridefully how! Privacy should never be breached unless specifically invited or welcomed to do so one way or other. Hybels into an early retirement is always Something/one Elses Fault, for sex they had other jobs butter-wouldnt-melt-in-their-mouth.... Went to Mars Hill and joined Rob Bells staff victims are generally clueless as to the...
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