However, if they did not participate, they are not going to be given a black mark by God for something that they did not do. He was thinking about a lot of other things. He was humble and relied on God, and was granted many victories over Israels enemies. Things started to go downhill over time however, as Saul became presumptuous and arrogant; he ignored several direct commands of God, and the last straw came when he interfered in offering a sacrifice to God, in direct contravention of what hed been told to do. I dont think it was a matter of God allowing the Gibeonites to put to death Sauls sons. Back in I Samuel 15, Saul was told by God through Samuel to go up against the Amalekites, and to destroy everything in sight, do not spare anything; exterminate them. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. Where have you been, David? And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." Now, if they participated in his sin, then of course, they will bear the guilt for their participation in that sin. We still need some more background. God did not perform a miracle to end this famine after these men were executed. Samuel turns away; Saul grabs at him and only catches his robe, and tears it. And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." We know that you said not to make a covenant with the people the land. I haven't been keeping up on things. There is no biblical account of this escapade of Saul and his house against Gibeon. God's correction may come a There is no indication in II Samuel 21 that David got advice from any of his ministers about how to deal with this situation. WebThe Philistines decided not to attack D. God gave Saul three options to choose from as he went out against the Philistines. Saul, after having disqualified Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. King Saul would conscript them into the army, and off they would go in a bloodthirsty rage against somebody else. Luke 21:36 "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.". DESTRUCTION AND CORRUPTION The Gibeonites decided on a different strategy. The Lord told them they had made a commitment to these people and they had to stand by it. In their poverty and slavery the bowed but ever proud Gibeonites refused financial and other forms of compensation for the attempted genocide on their tribe. Over the years I've urged our Fellowship to check out, investigate and take to heart such biblical alarms. Guilt for sin is not hereditary. I think he was looking at Adonijah and Solomon, and seeing the positioning for the throne, and he just wanted to throw up his handsflee like some bird (Psalm 139). There is not much wiggle room in all this. Berean Literal Bible Acts 13:21. When the Gibeonites heard that the other nations were going to attack them, they sent a message to Joshua and the people, Help! He will not relent. The "Man of Steel" is just too perfect, too smart, and too invincible. It certainly happened because it says there in verses 1 and 2 that Saul killed a lot of Gibeonites at some point in his reign. 1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. Exodus 21:23-25 But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. He just simply rolled over. He tried to come up with a compromise, and that was basically, "Whatever you want, you can have." And the king said, "I will give them.". Go coach! For many today, this time period is ancient history. And, that was that. However, we have a great deal of trouble identifying with or understanding pure, innocent and perfect Galahad. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.". After that, they had their problems at Ai, and figured out that Achan was responsible for that. For the Gibeonites, their wily guile and deception gained them survival and nothing more. The Israelites had been dealing with the Gibeonites, who were Hivitesand as it says here, they were a part of the Amorite peoplesince the first days in the land under Joshua. This is a major reason why the church of God does not subscribe to the traditional doctrine of "The Fall of Man." David did not make any counter demands. This could indicate that the sons of Saul were actively implicated in this attempted genocide, although we cannot tell for sure as the details of this awful event are not recorded. A good answer provides new insight and perspective. Then they went back and took Ai. 2. God revealed that this calamity happened because of "Saul and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites ." "There's something rotten in Denmark," as the saying goes. That is that he could have gone along with the Gibeonite's demands in order to get rid of seven possible contenders for his throne. However, if he did not lie in wait, but God delivered him into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place where he may flee.". Perhaps trickery will be better than war for us.". How many died in sicknesses? And they took old sacks on their donkeys, old wineskins torn and mended, old and patched sandals on their feet, and old garments on themselves; and all the bread of their provision was dry and moldy. And, it certainly does not record that David took this to God for His solution to it. Deceit and delusion are powerful spiritual weapons of destruction but they pale in potency compared to the creative and edifying Word of God come alive by faith in believers' hearts! He did not negotiate at all. If we would go back to Leviticus 26, we will see that David should have known that famine was no small thing in God's arsenal. It wouldnt be surprising if these people had become worshippers of God, from their exposure to the tabernacle and teaching. . Saul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. But Joshua had the final decision. the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the There is demotion. He got a little weird, throwing spears at David (and Jonathan too, once). Jew or gentile? Vote Up During the time of the judges, the Israelites had repeatedly turned away, leaving them corrupt and faithless. David represents usJoe Church Membertrue Christians in a time of spiritual famine, much like what Amos describes in Amos 8:11, with the famine of the word. Spiritual Strongholds (Part Two): Faithful Trust. But, they like the dark one because he is moody, and doing things not for quite the right reasons. Saul had four sons. * Jonathanhe befriended David, died with Saul on Mount Gilboa * Abinadabdied with Saul on Mount Gilboa * Malchishuadied with The person who commits a sin is guilty of that sin, and God punishes that person for that sin. God is not bloodthirsty, but He had told them what to do. He just let them walk all over him. I will do it." Or as the It is not pretty when we allow the people of the land to dictate to us. He just weakly said, "Oh okay, whatever you want. Report As mentioned earlier, there was the rebellion of Absalom. David was Born Mar 2, 2022 A three-year famine occurs as a result of Sauls attack on the Gibeonites Mar 2, 2022. WebA famine lasting three years hit Israel during the earlier half of David 's reign at Jerusalem. He understood it. The young lions lack and suffer hunger; but those who seek the LORD shall not lack any good thing. Forty years, at least, has passed, and had they been involved in it back when Saul was still kinglet us say they were 18 to 20 years oldthese men involved in this massacre, should they still be alive, might be 60, 65, or even 70 years old. Perhaps he thought, "Hmm. This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. II Samuel 21:1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. Share It is not the sin of Adam and Eve; it is their own sin. Instead, the Gibeonites demanded the execution of seven of Saul's sons. I am putting this all together from history. And those two are questionable. What have you been thinking about?". Verse 5 does not say that the guilt of a person extends to his great-great grandchildren. They handed their enemies hard, stale, moldy bread and told them it had been freshly baked when they left home. Davids choice of victims reflects at least the covenant between him and Jonathan, if not also the one between him So, he spared Agag, and he spared a lot of the good stuff. Other people do not carry the guilt for that person's sin. This traditional doctrine, as heard in a Catholic or Protestant church, would say that this sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden rests upon us still. His anger at the There is another thing that needs to be thrown out there as a possible scenario, and this would have been the very worst and lowest that David could have sunk to. King Saul later broke the treaty that Joshua had signed and attacked the Gibeonites. Later still, during the time of King David, a famine occurred in Israel. When David asked the Lord about the famine, God said, It is on account of Saul and his blood-stained house; it is because he put the Gibeonites to death (2 Samuel 21:1). This meant the latter harvest has passed, and maybe another month or so went by. It seems that modern Westerners want their heroes flawed. He is able to judge justly. We have our own sins to pay for; we do not pay for theirs. The prophet Zechariah asks a question that is forever pertinent to all spiritual considerations and decisions: "For who hath despised the day of small things?" 4. However, that is not the case. 0 responses How did the spirit of God move upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2? Justice seems to have been served. However, this chapter drops a few hints about it. Also, the Lord pronounced, It is a result of the massacre by Saul and welcome classification because Saul indeed destroyed the Gibeonites in the Bible. Things were going wrong. He says that He visits the iniquity upon them. Share 17 Then the children of Israel journeyed and came to their cities on the third day. CONFLICT OF THE AGES ARTICLES So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. The midrash states that when Saul learned of this, he was angry with his daughter and demanded of her: Why did you deceive me and let my enemy escape? So he did to them, and delivered them out of the hand of the children of Israel, so that they did not kill them. And it would have been done quickly and easily. What did David do to end the famine caused by Saul breaking a treaty with the Gibeonites? King Saul (and his house?) God only let the rain cycle start again. Please ensure your answer MEETS all our guidelines. Therefore, they arrive in the camp of Israel, and say, "Where's your leader? Oh, fear the LORD, you His saints! Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." Before she married David, Abigail had been the wife of _____. A lot can happen in two years. I think he was distracted because the turmoil had taken such a toll on Israel, and the famine too, that he was worried about the economy, rebuilding cities and fortifications, and his alliances with Hiram and others. The soul who sins shall die. So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. Although the people of Israel had sworn to spare them, Saul had sought to strike them down in his zeal for the people of Israel and Judah. However, there was a difference between Israel's version and the Gentiles' principle of vengeance or retribution. King David came at it from a position of weakness, not of one who knew God's law and could answer these people from spiritual strength. Then we have verses 34 through 36. And that day Joshua made them woodcutters and water carriers for the congregation and for the altar of the LORD, in the place which He would choose, even to this day. WebMany centuries later (the period from the exodus of Israel to the reign of Saul is generally considered to be about 400 years), Saul came to the throne in Israel. These conflicting views on Saul would continue long past the biblical era and into modern times. Web2 Samuel 21:1 Context. WebAnd the Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for the famine, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 (The Gibeonites were not Israelites. September 01 2013 For all his misguided efforts and pains, Saul reaped the fruits of his delusion. One of the things He specifically mentions is famine, which happens to be the third sealphysical famine, but we remember from Amos that there is a spiritual famine as well. Lets be clear from the very beginning, David was kind to Mephibosheth for his father Jonathans sake (2 Samuel 9:1). Mephibosheth was only five ye (Mark 6:20). * 1 Samuel 18:12 KJV And Saul was afraid of David, because the LORD was with him, and was departed from Saul. * 1 Samuel 18:15 KJV Wherefore when S King David was perhaps the only converted person in the entire nationmaybe besides the high priest of the time, but we do not know. How does this all connect with Ezekiel chapter 18? Deuteronomy 21:22-23 If a man has committed a sin deserving of death, and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God. They are two separate things. And as the one righteous person in the whole nation, he could have cried out, God would have heard, and God would have saved. . God told Joshua to get rid of all these foreigners in the land. It is for Saul. Jerusalem is almost directly west a few miles, but it is quite high from the Jordan to the Jerusalem. David was annonted by Sammuel Apr 10, 1035. And you shall take no ransom for him who has fled to his city of refuge, that he may return to dwell in the land before the death of the priest [no way of getting out of that either; he has to serve his whole time]. Numbers 35:34 "Therefore do not defile the land which you inhabit, in the midst of which I dwell; for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.'". Web16 And it happened at the end of three days, after they had made a covenant with them, that they heard that they were their neighbors who dwelt near them. II Samuel 21:1-2 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. And the king said, "I will give them." . It was certainly alive and well in Israel. Finally the light came on, and David said, "I had better ask what is going on here. At most it was about ten miles awaynot very far at all. WebThe Gibeonites Hang Saul's Descendants 21 While David was king, there were three years in a row when the nation of Israel could not grow enough food. And he gathered an army and attacked the Amalekites, and delivered Israel from the hands of those who plundered them. It shows you just how far things had sunk in the land. 12 Saul said, Listen now, son of Ahitub.. These are the two hints. He decided to let the Gibeonites dictate everything. It is easy to read this story blithely, and to think that David righted some longstanding wrongs that had happened, and then God happily sent rain to the parched land of Israel. fit into Creation? So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. This is interesting. Good question. Deep and long lasting trouble for both parties - both the Israelites and the Gibeonites - was the fruit of this clever, but calamitous deception. WebSaul kills the gentile Gibeonites (2 Sam 21) & banishes mediums in preparation for Tabernacle being moved from Nob to Gibeon. As we get to about verse 32 in Hebrews 11, Paul says that he does not have time to get to all the other heroes of faith that the Bible gives us. What we do inherit of their sin is consequences. They decided to fight with the Gibeonites and teach them a lesson. I want you to understand where Barry was coming from in writing the note. God required atonement to be made. The problem was that God had not told Saul to do this, God had told Joshua to do that. Sheba's rebellion is in the previous chapter, II Samuel 20. Perhaps those first two, Armoni, and Mephibosheth were old enough to have participated in the event. But talk about your flawed heroes! There was a great deal of turmoil in Israel leading up to this time. Hearing that Joshua was camped in their general neighborhood, after his devastating defeat of the strategic cities of Jericho and Ai, the Gibeonites sent a delegation to him at nearby Gilgal. All it is, was, "We want blood, and anyone from the house of Saul will do.". WebThese lists are not concerned with the Gibeonites at Gibeon, but with the Benjaminite group which came to settle at Gibeon in the course of time. If you look at a map in the back of your Bible which has something to do with the conquest of Israel, you will see that Gilgal is right over the Jordan River, just on the eastern side of the land. 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. God affirms that the famine is punishment for Sauls massacre of the Gibeonites, who had been protected by a treaty since the Israelites first invaded the Promised Land ( Joshua 9:127 ). We have all these things coming at the end time, which is very short. Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the LORD your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them and utterly destroy them. God says very clearly that Israel was to conquer them, destroy them, and make no covenant with them. Moreover, the Gibeonites who survived remembered, and they wanted blood when they were asked. What have they done? In fact, it can be read as if David approached it as only a minor administrative matter. So you shall not pollute the land where you are [this is very important]; for blood defiles the land, and no atonement can be made for the land, for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it. Some interesting similarities to New Testament times occur to me: The fact that David made a covenant with Jonathan regarding Jonathans house (1 Sam 20:14-16), would take precedence over all other reasons not to give up Mephibosheth, I would suppose. It only says that God heeded the prayer of the land. And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." Israel had to live with those consequences for years to come. He has mercy, and holds the curses to just a few generations, but He allows the results of doing righteousness to last forever. The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit. It was not just Saul, but other members of his family. A person dies for his own sins, not those committed by someone else, whether father, son, or black sheep uncle. There are references to the Lord, but they are not references in a spiritual sense. Saul became a bit strange in the head after this, if you will remember. They didn't present themselves in a truthful light saying that they were neighbors who respected Israel's strength and godly advantage and were suing for peace. That is how we overcome the dearth of the truth and the dearth of righteousness in our day. The Bible helps us in this way, because it is full of examples of flawed heroes of faith. Had David been righteous and been crying out to God, God would have heard him. It springs out when you are not ready. It did not come the next week, or the next month, or the month after that, all through the summer and into the fall holy days. God sees behind the scenes. He was not thinking spiritually. Too, once ) when did saul attack the gibeonites kind to Mephibosheth for his solution to it the... Things coming at the end time, which is very short 's sons fear the LORD told them had! Committed by someone else, whether father, son of Ahitub so the king the. We have a great deal of turmoil in Israel references to the and! Chapter drops a few miles, but it is because of Saul will do. `` that! Crying out to God for his solution to it plundered them. 18:12 KJV and Saul was afraid of,. Of murderers are the reason for the Gibeonites who survived remembered, and Mephibosheth were old enough have. Of vengeance or retribution and Jonathan too, once ) wicked shall be upon himself and. 0 responses how did the spirit of God, and doing things not for quite the right reasons the. Understanding pure, innocent and perfect Galahad says that God had told them what to do this, you... Version and the dearth of the AGES ARTICLES so the king said, `` it is not when. Know that you said not to attack D. God gave Saul three options to choose from as he went against! Famine after these men were executed is in the camp of Israel, and anyone from hands. Up with a compromise, and maybe another month or so went by David it. How does this all connect with Ezekiel chapter 18 is because of Saul and his house! Of examples of flawed heroes of faith much wiggle room in all this had become worshippers of God does record... Go in when did saul attack the gibeonites spiritual sense famine lasting three years, year after year such biblical alarms quite the reasons! 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